What if you want to start messing around with Saving Throws, then? After all, they're the last barrier between a character and an horrible death (or anyway some serious trouble)...
First of all, let's say something: when you change Saving Throws mechanics but keep the odds reasonably close to the original, you are not changing the game. You may have a mechanical improvement (an easier rule, a rule which fits better with other rules, an easier progression, perhaps a little more freedom in points allocation...), but the game (read: the odds) remains substantially the same.
If instead you make drastic changes to the odds (i.e. Saving Throws based on Ability scores, roll 1d20 equal or under the score), you're changing the game. It's not bad, but keep in mind that you're making a substantial change.
If you increase the chances of survival for low level characters, it is not bad per se. Perhaps you want a game where characters are more durable and have a chance to last longer. Just be aware of it (and there's plenty of other opportunities to kill characters nevertheless, regardless of Saving Throws).
If you change drastically the level progression system (i.e. make it easier to gain a level) you have an impact on Saving Throws as well.
If you take away a progression by level, you probably have more resistant characters at the start, but more vulnerable ones at the high levels (which is fine by me... I like to play low levels more).
In any case, be aware of the consequences of your changes. Playtest your house-rules and be ready to tune them, change them, discard them if they don't serve you well.
So, the first two links are by Brendan. The first post is about keeping it simple: find what is “most favorable” or “least favorable” for the various classes, and use a unified progression chart for all classes. I like the simplicity of it, and before you start arguing about one point more or one point less here and there, if compared to the OD&D, remember that 1 point in a Saving Throw is worth a 5% chance.
I wouldn't loose sleep over it, if it simplified the system.
It is not mentioned in the article, but it makes it easy also to improvise rules about Saving Throws without having to worry about categories (is this a Save vs. Wands or vs. Petrification?).
Favorable and unfavorable saves
by Brendan
Swords & Wizardry collapsed all the saving throws into a single number, with some class-based modifiers. For example, clerics get +2 when saving against paralysis or poison, and magic-users get +2 when saving against spells. The traditional saving throw categories do provide atmosphere (death ray, dragon breath), but are somewhat cumbersome and nonintuitive. [...]
One thing I’ve been doing recently is using “most favorable” or “least favorable” save numbers for cases where the choice of what save category to use is not immediately clear. If it seems like something the class in question would have some competence with, the character gets to use the most favorable. [...]
All classes would reference the same values, but would differ as to which number was used by situation. This method would require two numbers, but would avoid needing any class-based or situational modifiers. [...]
The second link by Brendan is a little more technical, but definitely worth a read. Remember when I said that Saving Throws are strictly tied to the level progression? Brendan makes it explicit in this post, and insists (and he's right if you want to stay loyal to OD&D) that such progression is one of the cornerstones of the game.
So in this house-rule, Brandan ties the level itself in the Saving Throw roll. If combined with the previous Favorable and unfavorable categories, or with specific bonuses, it can recreate similar chances as the original tables, but with a linear progression by level (which I like) and a simple formula instead of multiple tables (which I also like very much).
Level as saving throw
So if the saving throw is really just a shorthand for level, a reward for extensive successful play, why do we need another number at all? Maybe Swords & Wizardry doesn’t go far enough with its single saving throw. Why can’t we just use the level directly? [...]
There are a few problems with using level directly. For one thing, saving throws shouldn’t be too hard at first level or too easy at high levels. In the original game, a fighter has to roll 12 or higher at first level to successfully save versus death. A beginning magic-user has to roll 15 or higher to save versus spells. The endgame saving throw target numbers range from 3 to 8, depending on category and class. They cluster around 5. These probabilities should be our guidelines. [...]
What about d20 + level, 16+ = success and 5- = failure? That’s simple enough to remember, is symmetrical, and handles low and high levels well. Ranges from 30% success at first level (since there is a +1 from being first level) to 25% failure at level 10 (after which saves wouldn’t functionally improve anymore, though you never need to track anything other than the level). [...]
http://www.necropraxis.com/2012/09/19/level-as-saving-throw/
This third post deals with the single Saving Throw as presented by S&W. I don't know if perhaps the original S&W rules didn't provide bonuses back in 2009 when this post was written, but I think it's rather a misinterpretation of the rules by James Maliszewski. Leaving this aside, though, the post insists on the need to differentiate the classes by type of threat, and there are a few interesting comments following the post (which is otherwise not so useful to us in this conversation).
One comment for example shows how to approach Saving Throws again by class and level, another comment presents a unified Saving Throw by level and attribute modifier, and a third presents a list of attributes and the Saving Throws that could be tied to the various attributes.
A Point of Dissatisfaction with S&W
[...] For reasons I don't quite understand, S&W uses a single saving throw rather than several, as did OD&D and AD&D (and as do OSRIC and Labyrinth Lord). At first, this didn't bother me very much. Indeed, I was starting to feel that the reduction of saves to a single number for each class was actually an improvement over the original mechanics. [...]
Efficient though it may be, it also eliminated one of the more eccentric mechanical elements of D&D, something that gave each class a lot of distinctiveness. In S&W, as written, clerics are hands-down better than all the other classes when it comes to saves and that just feels wrong. I particularly miss the way that old school fighters had the best saving throws versus breath attacks, which always felt right to me given all the tales of dragon slaying.
[...]
clovis
i find it easier to base saves on ability scores then arbitrary categories such as wand or breath weapon
adding a set bonus based upon character class;
1/2 per level for fighters, rangers, clerics and sorcerors and
2/3 per level for mages & thieves;
[...]
S'mon
How about do it by attribute?
Target number =(Base Number, eg 18) - (attribute modifier + Level)?
This is basically the C&C approach, minus Primes. You could make it minus half level, too. And you could leave out attribute modifiers if you don't want to emphasize stats.
[...]
Norman Harman
I'm enamored with Troll Lords C&C system. Ties into their SIEGE engine of prime non-prime attributes.
Each stat is the save vs particular kinds of attacks.
STRENGTH Paralysis, Constriction
INTELLIGENCE Arcane Magic, Illusion
WISDOM Divine Magic, Confusion, Gaze Attack, Polymorph, Petrification
DEXTERITY Breath Weapon, Traps
CONSTITUTION Disease, Energy Drain, Poison
CHARISMA Death Attack, Charm, Fear
VARIABLE: Spells (based off of spell effects, CN for poison spell, CH for charm)
[...]
Staying in the same spirit as the last comment, here is the rule I used in the Black Dogs (including the priority order, to be able to rule which ability to check for the Saving Throw).
Design notes
- Use a single value (as S&W) with appropriate modifier
- Use two values (favorable and unfavorable) with two different progressions
- Use the level as a measure of the improvement
- Keep in mind that differences among classes and vs. different types of threat are in purpose
- Of course there is the possibility to use the ability modifiers or the ability scores, in connection to the Saving Throws
All this talking about Saving Throws gave me an idea... Saving Throw Effort - let's discuss this next time.
I enjoyed this post and pointed some people towards it on my podcast this week.
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