Using something similar for Saving Throws is something that I was considering for a while, so here it is. This thing is long and boring, though, so here is the final rule.
Roll Saving Throws with a d6, as Skills. Roll equal or under for a successful Save.
Add one point to a Save score of your choice at level-up, up to level 13 (17 for Clerics). The highest score cannot be more than 2 points above the lowest.
The starting scores would be:
| Paralyze | Poison | Breath | Device | Magic | Up to level | |
| Cleric | 2 | 3 | 2 | 3 | 2 | up to 17 |
| Fighter | 2 | 3 | 2 | 3 | 2 | up to 13 |
| Magic-User | 3 | 3 | 2 | 3 | 2 | up to 13 |
| Specialist | 2 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 2 | up to 13 |
For a cooler, stronger Specialist you may allow a progression up to level 17 (as the Cleric) or at least grant one or two points more at level 1 (player's choice).
Read more just if you're interested in the process of getting to the above rule.
Let's start by looking for the basic save chances compared with the d6 probabilities, and the d20 probabilities of regular Saving Throws.
d6 probabilities (roll equal or under):
| pips | prob. |
| 1 | 16.7% |
| 2 | 33.3% |
| 3 | 50.0% |
| 4 | 66.7% |
| 5 | 83.3% |
| 6 | 100.0% |
d20 probabilities (roll equal or higher) with specific attention to scores close to the d6 probabilities (note that in some cases the d6 probability is close enough to two different d20 scores):
| save | prob. | as d6 |
| 1 | 100.0% | as 6 pips |
| 2 | 95.0% | |
| 3 | 90.0% | |
| 4 | 85.0% | as 5 pips |
| 5 | 80.0% | as 5 pips |
| 6 | 75.0% | |
| 7 | 70.0% | |
| 8 | 65.0% | as 4 pips |
| 9 | 60.0% | |
| 10 | 55.0% | |
| 11 | 50.0% | as 3 pips |
| 12 | 45.0% | |
| 13 | 40.0% | |
| 14 | 35.0% | as 2 pips |
| 15 | 30.0% | as 2 pips |
| 16 | 25.0% | |
| 17 | 20.0% | |
| 18 | 15.0% | as 1 pip |
| 19 | 10.0% | |
| 20 | 5.0% |
It is clear, comparing the two tables, that the d20 allows for more granularity in the percentage of success. With the d20 each increment counts as making 5% more likely your success in a Saving Throw, while with the d6 chances step up over 16,7% (somewhere between 3 and 4 points on a d20 scale).
This means that of course also the improvements at level-up should increase proportionally slower. Consider also that in the progression tables provided by LotFP, the Saving Throw scores increase not every level, but every four or so... and increments are not by one point only, but two, three, sometimes four points each time (thus favoring the implementation of the d6).
Below are the tables with the proposed d6 scores (roll equal or under), for the four human classes.
The column with (d6) are with the new scores. When in doubt, I tried to favor a little the lower levels, and less the higher levels (thus increasing a bit survivability at the start, and keeping the game dangerous at higher levels).
Also note that when the score reaches 6, the success is not granted. LotFP, for skills, requires that with a score of 6 you roll 2d6 and fail if both come up with a result of 6. In the tables, it is presented as 6*.
| Cleric | ||||||||||
| Level | Paralyze | Paralyze(d6) | Poison | Poison(d6) | Breath | Breath(d6) | Device | Device(d6) | Magic | Magic(d6) |
| 1 | 14 (35%) | 2 (33.3%) | 11 (50%) | 3 (50%) | 16 (25%) | 2 (33.3%) | 12 (45%) | 3 (50%) | 15 (30%) | 2 (33.3%) |
| 5 | 12 (45%) | 3 (50%) | 9 (60%) | 4 (66.7%) | 14 (35%) | 2 (33.3%) | 10 (55%) | 3 (50%) | 12 (45%) | 3 (50%) |
| 9 | 10 (55%) | 3 (50%) | 7 (70%) | 4 (66.7%) | 12 (45%) | 3 (50%) | 8 (65%) | 4 (66.7%) | 9 (60%) | 4 (66.7%) |
| 13 | 8 (65%) | 4 (66.7%) | 3 (90%) | 5 (83.7%) | 8 (65%) | 4 (66.7%) | 4 (85%) | 5 (83.7%) | 6 (75%) | 5 (83.7%) |
| 17 | 6 (75%) | 5 (83.7%) | 2 (95%) | 6* (94,7%) | 6 (75%) | 5 (83.7%) | 4 (85%) | 5 (83.7%) | 5 (80%) | 5 (83.7%) |
| Fighter | ||||||||||
| Level | Paralyze | Paralyze(d6) | Poison | Poison(d6) | Breath | Breath(d6) | Device | Device(d6) | Magic | Magic(d6) |
| 0* | 16 (25%) | 2 (33.3%) | 16 (25%) | 2 (33.3%) | 16 (25%) | 2 (33.3%) | 15 (30%) | 2 (33.3%) | 18 (15%) | 1 (16.7%) |
| 1 | 14 (35%) | 2 (33.3%) | 12 (45%) | 3 (50%) | 15 (30%) | 2 (33.3%) | 13 (40%) | 3 (50%) | 16 (25%) | 2 (33.3%) |
| 4 | 12 (45%) | 3 (50%) | 10 (55%) | 3 (50%) | 13 (40%) | 3 (50%) | 11 (50%) | 3 (50%) | 14 (35%) | 2 (33.3%) |
| 7 | 10 (55%) | 3 (50%) | 8 (65%) | 4 (66.7%) | 9 (60%) | 4 (66.7%) | 9 (60%) | 4 (66.7%) | 12 (45%) | 3 (50%) |
| 10 | 8 (65%) | 4 (66.7%) | 6 (75%) | 5 (83.7%) | 7 (70%) | 4 (66.7%) | 7 (70%) | 4 (66.7%) | 10 (55%) | 3 (50%) |
| 13 | 6 (75%) | 5 (83.7%) | 4 (85%) | 5 (83.7%) | 5 (80%) | 5 (83.7%) | 5 (80%) | 5 (83.7%) | 8 (65%) | 4 (66.7%) |
| 0* NPCs only | ||||||||||
| Magic-user | ||||||||||
| Level | Paralyze | Paralyze(d6) | Poison | Poison(d6) | Breath | Breath(d6) | Device | Device(d6) | Magic | Magic(d6) |
| 1 | 13 (40%) | 3 (50%) | 13 (40%) | 3 (50%) | 16 (25%) | 2 (33.3%) | 13 (40%) | 3 (50%) | 14 (35%) | 2 (33.3%) |
| 6 | 11 (50%) | 3 (50%) | 11 (50%) | 3 (50%) | 14 (35%) | 2 (33.3%) | 11 (50%) | 3 (50%) | 12 (45%) | 3 (50%) |
| 11 | 9 (60%) | 4 (66.7%) | 9 (60%) | 4 (66.7%) | 12 (45%) | 3 (50%) | 9 (60%) | 4 (66.7%) | 8 (65%) | 4 (66.7%) |
| 16 | 6 (75%) | 5 (83.7%) | 7 (70%) | 4 (66.7%) | 8 (65%) | 4 (66.7%) | 5 (80%) | 5 (83.7%) | 6 (75%) | 5 (83.7%) |
| 19 | 5 (80%) | 5 (83.7%) | 6 (75%) | 5 (83.7%) | 7 (70%) | 4 (66.7%) | 4 (85%) | 5 (83.7%) | 4 (85%) | 5 (83.7%) |
| Specialist | ||||||||||
| Level | Paralyze | Paralyze(d6) | Poison | Poison(d6) | Breath | Breath(d6) | Device | Device(d6) | Magic | Magic(d6) |
| 1 | 14 (35%) | 2 (33.3%) | 16 (25%) | 2 (33.3%) | 15 (30%) | 2 (33.3%) | 14 (35%) | 2 (33.3%) | 14 (35%) | 2 (33.3%) |
| 5 | 11 (50%) | 3 (50%) | 12 (45%) | 3 (50%) | 14 (35%) | 2 (33.3%) | 13 (40%) | 3 (50%) | 12 (45%) | 3 (50%) |
| 9 | 9 (60%) | 4 (66.7%) | 10 (55%) | 3 (50%) | 12 (45%) | 3 (50%) | 11 (50%) | 3 (50%) | 10 (55%) | 3 (50%) |
| 13 | 7 (70%) | 4 (66.7%) | 8 (65%) | 4 (66.7%) | 10 (55%) | 3 (50%) | 9 (60%) | 4 (66.7%) | 8 (65%) | 4 (66.7%) |
| 17 | 5 (80%) | 5 (83.7%) | 6 (75%) | 5 (83.7%) | 8 (65%) | 4 (66.7%) | 7 (70%) | 4 (66.7%) | 6 (75%) | 5 (83.7%) |
For better use, here are the tables only with the d6 scores.
| Cleric | |||||
| Level | Paralyze(d6) | Poison(d6) | Breath(d6) | Device(d6) | Magic(d6) |
| 1 | 2 (33.3%) | 3 (50%) | 2 (33.3%) | 3 (50%) | 2 (33.3%) |
| 5 | 3 (50%) | 4 (66.7%) | 2 (33.3%) | 3 (50%) | 3 (50%) |
| 9 | 3 (50%) | 4 (66.7%) | 3 (50%) | 4 (66.7%) | 4 (66.7%) |
| 13 | 4 (66.7%) | 5 (83.7%) | 4 (66.7%) | 5 (83.7%) | 5 (83.7%) |
| 17 | 5 (83.7%) | 6* (94,7%) | 5 (83.7%) | 5 (83.7%) | 5 (83.7%) |
| Fighter | |||||
| Level | Paralyze(d6) | Poison(d6) | Breath(d6) | Device(d6) | Magic(d6) |
| 0* | 2 (33.3%) | 2 (33.3%) | 2 (33.3%) | 2 (33.3%) | 1 (16.7%) |
| 1 | 2 (33.3%) | 3 (50%) | 2 (33.3%) | 3 (50%) | 2 (33.3%) |
| 4 | 3 (50%) | 3 (50%) | 3 (50%) | 3 (50%) | 2 (33.3%) |
| 7 | 3 (50%) | 4 (66.7%) | 4 (66.7%) | 4 (66.7%) | 3 (50%) |
| 10 | 4 (66.7%) | 5 (83.7%) | 4 (66.7%) | 4 (66.7%) | 3 (50%) |
| 13 | 5 (83.7%) | 5 (83.7%) | 5 (83.7%) | 5 (83.7%) | 4 (66.7%) |
| 0* NPCs only | |||||
| Magic-user | |||||
| Level | Paralyze(d6) | Poison(d6) | Breath(d6) | Device(d6) | Magic(d6) |
| 1 | 3 (50%) | 3 (50%) | 2 (33.3%) | 3 (50%) | 2 (33.3%) |
| 6 | 3 (50%) | 3 (50%) | 2 (33.3%) | 3 (50%) | 3 (50%) |
| 11 | 4 (66.7%) | 4 (66.7%) | 3 (50%) | 4 (66.7%) | 4 (66.7%) |
| 16 | 5 (83.7%) | 4 (66.7%) | 4 (66.7%) | 5 (83.7%) | 5 (83.7%) |
| 19 | 5 (83.7%) | 5 (83.7%) | 4 (66.7%) | 5 (83.7%) | 5 (83.7%) |
| Specialist | |||||
| Level | Paralyze(d6) | Poison(d6) | Breath(d6) | Device(d6) | Magic(d6) |
| 1 | 2 (33.3%) | 2 (33.3%) | 2 (33.3%) | 2 (33.3%) | 2 (33.3%) |
| 5 | 3 (50%) | 3 (50%) | 2 (33.3%) | 3 (50%) | 3 (50%) |
| 9 | 4 (66.7%) | 3 (50%) | 3 (50%) | 3 (50%) | 3 (50%) |
| 13 | 4 (66.7%) | 4 (66.7%) | 3 (50%) | 4 (66.7%) | 4 (66.7%) |
| 17 | 5 (83.7%) | 5 (83.7%) | 4 (66.7%) | 4 (66.7%) | 5 (83.7%) |
I am not a big fan of this sort of tables, so the next step would be to determine a starting line for each class, with Save scores at level 1, and assign a number of points to add every level (not every few levels like LotFP). This way, the player gets a little freedom in which score to increase, and gain a little more chances of surviving every level.
A Cleric for example starts with 2-3-2-3-2 and with 4 levels (1 to 5) gains 3 points, 1-1-0-0-1.
| Cleric | |||||
| Level | Paralyze(d6) | Poison(d6) | Breath(d6) | Device(d6) | Magic(d6) |
| 1 | 2 (33.3%) | 3 (50%) | 2 (33.3%) | 3 (50%) | 2 (33.3%) |
| 5 | 3 (50%) | 4 (66.7%) | 2 (33.3%) | 3 (50%) | 3 (50%) |
To favor lower levels, we could grant one point per level. To keep the balance, we could also rule that the highest Save score cannot be more than 2 points higher than the lowest. This would ensure a progression across all Saves.
If we compare what we have at the start and what we would have at the highest level presented by the original tables, we would get:
- Up to level 17, one point too much for the Cleric (I could live with that)
- Up to level 13, ok for the Fighter
- Up to level 19, too many points for the Magic-User. Either we accept this power-up, or we stop the MU at level 13 as the Fighter, which I prefer (not exact math, but having the same level helps you to memorize the rule. This makes the progression in Saves faster, though, but again I am ok with this)
- Up to level 17, three points too much for the Specialist. The temptation is to stop it at level 13 as Fighter and Magic-User, but I also like the idea of a Specialist who can survive better (as a Cleric) at higher levels
So the final rule would be this.
Roll Saving Throws with a d6, as Skills. Roll equal or under for a successful Save.
Add one point to a Save score of your choice at level-up, up to level 13 (17 for Clerics). The highest score cannot be more than 2 points above the lowest.
The starting scores would be:
| Paralyze | Poison | Breath | Device | Magic | Up to level | |
| Cleric | 2 | 3 | 2 | 3 | 2 | up to 17 |
| Fighter | 2 | 3 | 2 | 3 | 2 | up to 13 |
| Magic-User | 3 | 3 | 2 | 3 | 2 | up to 13 |
| Specialist | 2 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 2 | up to 13 |
For a cooler, stronger Specialist you may allow a progression up to level 17 (as the Cleric) or at least grant one or two points more at level 1 (player's choice).
I like this.
I was not the only one of course to come up with something similar, so here are a few links which I collected after I made my own rule:
- In Alternate Saving Throw by DeathKnight4044 there is a draft of a system connected to the level of the characters and of the opponent
- In Some Thoughts on Saving Throws by KYLYNSMALL there is a system similar to mine
- In Saving Throws as d6 Skills by Red Flanagan there is another system similar to mine, with a nicer layout and presentation and with slightly lower Save scores at low levels
- In A suggested alternate saving throw system to go along with LotFP by CaptainAhash Saving Throws are rolled with 2d6 (presenting the chances for success if both or either die are equal or lower than the save level
- In Skills revisited: Dice pools and the LotFP playtest rules by Dan Domme there is a short review of the new Saving Throws system presented by James Raggi in his playtest document for new rules for LotFP.
Alternate Saving Throw
by DeathKnight4044
[...] Thanks for all the replies everyone. This is mostly what im leaning towards at the moment:
- Saving throw is recorded along with all other skills at a base of 2 in 6 chance of success.
- A 13+ in a relevant attribute will increase this rank by 1
- At levels 3 and 6 the saving throws skill rank increases by 1. (so a 6th level character has a 4 in 6 saving throw)
- Saving vs an enemy or spell casters magic that is higher level/HD than you lowers your skill rank by 1. Saving vs an enemy or spell casters magic whos lower level/HD than you grants a +1 to your saving throw skill rank.
- A 6 is always a fail [...]
http://test.lotfp.com/RPG/discussion/post/5696/#p5696
Some Thoughts on Saving Throws
by KYLYNSMALL
My house rule for saving throws integrates alongside this skill system. In the same way that the thief skills were taken from a table of automatic progression and their own distinct mechanic, it takes the saving throws off of preset tables and gives them the same level of player choice as the specialist has in its skills.
As of now, I suggest using the same “classic” saving throw categories (Paralyze, Poison, Breath, Device, and Magic), but simply starting each one at a 1 in 6 chance on a d6 of success. Maybe providing class based starting levels, such as starting fighters with a 2 in 6 chance of Poison and Breath saves, to reflect their greater resilience and reaction time. All classes would get a single “Save Point” per level that they could apply to any of the saving throws, moving from a 1 in 6 to a 2 in 6 chance for example. Specialists, on the other hand, would move from getting 2 Skill Points per level to 3 Skill Points per level. The Specialist can use these points on either skills or saving throws. This gives the opportunity, for example, for a specialist that is extremely resilient and dexterous rather than extremely skilled if most points are applied into saving throw categories. Or even a Specialist that is particularly weak in terms of saving throws but is extra skilled compared to others. [...]
https://coosempiricalgazette.wordpress.com/2017/05/18/some-thoughts-on-saving-throws/
A suggested alternate saving throw system to go along with LotFP
by CaptainAhash
[...] Roll 2 dice to save. If either are equal to or less than your save level, you succeed.
save level 0 (only snake eyes succeeds): 1/36 (2.8%)
save level 1: 11/36 (30.6%)
save level 2: 20/36 (55.6%) [...]
Roll 2 dice to save. Both must be equal to or less than your save level to succeed.
save level 0: automatic fail
save level 1: 1/36 (2.8%)
save level 2: 4/36 (11.1%) [...]
https://www.reddit.com/r/osr/comments/6bza7j/a_suggested_alternate_saving_throw_system_to_go/
Skills revisited: Dice pools and the LotFP playtest rules
by Dan Domme
[...] Just a few days ago, I grabbed a copy of LotFP's Free RPG Day supplement for the year, Eldritch Cock. It has a whole bunch of spells in it, but also what I think is the first unrestricted release of the LotFP playtest rules, a set of backwards-compatible rules changes for the game.
One of the coolest things, in my opinion, is the update of Saving Throws. They are now based on a d6 dice pool. Number of successes determines the result (2+ = full save, 1 = partial save, 0=fail). The only variable is, are you saving against a magical effect or not? I am a bit biased since I love dice pools inherently, but I think that this is a great improvement, at least on paper. Saving throws have always been a high hurdle to clear for lower-level characters. I want to see exactly how this plays out at the table.
Meanwhile, of all the great things in LotFP, the skill checks were the one thing that I never really liked. you have an n-in-6 chance, a single d6 roll. So (a) you want to roll low, and (b) you could end up with a 6-in-6 chance to do something if you buy enough of a single skill as a Specialist. [...]
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